Saturday, May 03, 2008
Very recently I received (from work) a new laptop: Lenovo T61p (to replace my aging Toshiba M5). There are quite a few gotchas with setting up this machine (e.g. I wasted an hour trying to get it to see a second internal drive), but I will spare you my setup/installation experience. Instead, you may be interested in Keith's helpful post here. Generally, I am happy with this machine from a performance perspective.
There is however the quite important issue of its keyboard: it's the laptop keyboard from hell. Why the "£$^&* don't we have a universal standard for laptop keyboards yet? The placement of keys on this laptop is weird (e.g. the ESC key is further up than the top row of keys instead of being aligned with the Function keys) and also keys I usually expect to be more easily accessible than other keys (e.g. up, down, left, right arrow keys) are actually... smaller and cramped close to the others!
However the biscuit goes to the Fn key placement in relation to the Ctrl key. I expected the Ctrl key to be firmly placed in the bottom left and for it to be larger than other keys. Instead, the Ctrl key is normal size and it is 2nd from the bottom left, its place taken by the rarely used Fn key! What is worst is that, apparently, there is no keymapping software that can fix this, since Lenovo in their wisdom have made it permanent in the firmware :-(
One of the worst examples of how this trips me up is copy/paste (Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V). I have some source window where I do a copy (but in reality I only did an Fn+C without realising it) and then close the window, switch to my target window and do a paste (in reality a Fn+V) and nothing happens. Then I realise my mistake but it's too late to do a Ctrl+V now since the copy was never actioned... Arghh!
If you think that I am overreacting, first try using a keyboard like that before passing judgement. If you own one and think I am overreacting, clearly you haven't tried pressing Ctrl+Shift+B (Build Solution in Visual Studio) or Ctrl+Shift+Esc (bring up Task Manager) with just one hand (impossible!). Anyway, it looks like I am not alone judging by the collections of complaints here, here, here and here amongst other places.
My partial solution: I removed the offending key completely (screenshot).
As an unrelated aside, the Mac Air suffers from the same bewildering choice of placement of the Fn and Ctrl keys. As a more related aside, if you see me struggling to type in my upcoming events, now you know why!
<end of rant/>
There is however the quite important issue of its keyboard: it's the laptop keyboard from hell. Why the "£$^&* don't we have a universal standard for laptop keyboards yet? The placement of keys on this laptop is weird (e.g. the ESC key is further up than the top row of keys instead of being aligned with the Function keys) and also keys I usually expect to be more easily accessible than other keys (e.g. up, down, left, right arrow keys) are actually... smaller and cramped close to the others!
However the biscuit goes to the Fn key placement in relation to the Ctrl key. I expected the Ctrl key to be firmly placed in the bottom left and for it to be larger than other keys. Instead, the Ctrl key is normal size and it is 2nd from the bottom left, its place taken by the rarely used Fn key! What is worst is that, apparently, there is no keymapping software that can fix this, since Lenovo in their wisdom have made it permanent in the firmware :-(
One of the worst examples of how this trips me up is copy/paste (Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V). I have some source window where I do a copy (but in reality I only did an Fn+C without realising it) and then close the window, switch to my target window and do a paste (in reality a Fn+V) and nothing happens. Then I realise my mistake but it's too late to do a Ctrl+V now since the copy was never actioned... Arghh!
If you think that I am overreacting, first try using a keyboard like that before passing judgement. If you own one and think I am overreacting, clearly you haven't tried pressing Ctrl+Shift+B (Build Solution in Visual Studio) or Ctrl+Shift+Esc (bring up Task Manager) with just one hand (impossible!). Anyway, it looks like I am not alone judging by the collections of complaints here, here, here and here amongst other places.
My partial solution: I removed the offending key completely (screenshot).
As an unrelated aside, the Mac Air suffers from the same bewildering choice of placement of the Fn and Ctrl keys. As a more related aside, if you see me struggling to type in my upcoming events, now you know why!
<end of rant/>
Labels: Personal
# posted by The Moth @ 23:52 
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Man that really sucks. I used to have an old Compaq Armada laptop which had exactly the same issue with the function key being where the Ctrl key should be. I did actually get used to it though, but I shouldn't have had to!
I also have noticed lots of laptops place the Start Key or Context-Menu key in a strange place (up in the rop right) have you noticed that?
_________________I also have noticed lots of laptops place the Start Key or Context-Menu key in a strange place (up in the rop right) have you noticed that?
IBM has been putting the ThinkPad Fn key in that position since at least the mid-1990s. It's been there on every ThinkPad I've owned between my old 486/DX4 and my T61p. Considering IBM was *the* notebook to have long before anyone had heard of Dell, I would venture to say that it's the *other* configuration that is incorrect. Even my MacBook Pro has the Fn key in the bottom left. Regardless, its takes you all of two days to get used to it. Now put that Fn key back on so you can use it to toggle your keyboard light and break in the debugger.
Fn key placement aside, I suspect you will grow to appreciate the ThinkPad's keyboard after a week or two, and will never be able to go back to anything else. The key sensitivity, feedback, size, and spacing are the best out there. If you write code, you want to write it on a ThinkPad. If you feel differently, then you are wrong, but will quickly learn the error of your ways ;).
Also, the newer forward/back buttons placed amongst the arrow keys are great for Windows Explorer.
_________________Fn key placement aside, I suspect you will grow to appreciate the ThinkPad's keyboard after a week or two, and will never be able to go back to anything else. The key sensitivity, feedback, size, and spacing are the best out there. If you write code, you want to write it on a ThinkPad. If you feel differently, then you are wrong, but will quickly learn the error of your ways ;).
Also, the newer forward/back buttons placed amongst the arrow keys are great for Windows Explorer.
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Daniel,
You get used to it. I actually like it since it makes it easy to turn the ThinkLight on in the dark. (Press bottom left and top right key--instant light)!
-Marcus
_________________You get used to it. I actually like it since it makes it easy to turn the ThinkLight on in the dark. (Press bottom left and top right key--instant light)!
-Marcus
You haven't played a shooter yet ;)
Ducking becomes quite challenging because you can't assign an action to the Fn key!
ASUS doesn't do a better job here...
_________________Ducking becomes quite challenging because you can't assign an action to the Fn key!
ASUS doesn't do a better job here...
All Apple Laptops I know do have the same "issue" as well... However on my Macs I don't use the Ctrl key that much. Whenever you want to use Ctrl it's mostly the Cmd (Apple) key you want and this one is just left (or right) to the space bar.
I just bought a Macbook Air, and the keyboard feels really great (to say the least). It took some time to get used to the different spacing (I upgraded from a PowerBook12") but after that it's just a dream to type. And did I mention that the keyboard is illuminated? This is really really useful.
My parents have a keyboard from Microsoft and even MS engineers screw things up sometimes :-) By default on this keyboard the fn key is always active, so you have to press fn to deactivate the fn feature! That's even worse than your layout issue!
So if you want to enter BIOS, press fn+F1 (of fn+F10, I don't remember). If you want to load any help page, press fn+F1.
Personally I would have trown this keyboard where it belongs, but my parents don't use the F keys that much so they got used to it...
So I hope after some days you're going to get used to it. After all I never heard something (too) negative about any ThinkPad.
Best regards!
_________________I just bought a Macbook Air, and the keyboard feels really great (to say the least). It took some time to get used to the different spacing (I upgraded from a PowerBook12") but after that it's just a dream to type. And did I mention that the keyboard is illuminated? This is really really useful.
My parents have a keyboard from Microsoft and even MS engineers screw things up sometimes :-) By default on this keyboard the fn key is always active, so you have to press fn to deactivate the fn feature! That's even worse than your layout issue!
So if you want to enter BIOS, press fn+F1 (of fn+F10, I don't remember). If you want to load any help page, press fn+F1.
Personally I would have trown this keyboard where it belongs, but my parents don't use the F keys that much so they got used to it...
So I hope after some days you're going to get used to it. After all I never heard something (too) negative about any ThinkPad.
Best regards!
# posted by 
: Sunday, 4 May 2008 20:41:00 o'clock BST
: Sunday, 4 May 2008 20:41:00 o'clock BST
You're lucky - my work IBM (pre-Lenovo) T42 has exactly the same layout but with one huge ommision - the Windows Key..! This and the daft placing of the Fn key doesn't bother me at work as the laptop is docked and I use a USB keyboard, but at home it's really annoying. Two of my most used shortcuts Win+E and Win+R are not longer available and it bugs the hell out of me!
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This is funny. Reading this explained an oddity I recently noticed. I have a T60P and apparently trained myself too well to get around the FN key placement. In the last month I've been doing a little more work on my desktop and am constantly hitting the Windows Key, since I'm used to a ctrl button there on the lappie... annoying.
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I have to agree it incredibly frustrating on any keyboard. I have a Alienware laptop with the same 'Fn' placement. But between work and home I have to regularly switch to around 4-5 different keyboard layouts.
Worst of all most desktop machines have the same problem, my one particular bug bear is squashed 'home' 'end' 'pgup' etc. keys
_________________Worst of all most desktop machines have the same problem, my one particular bug bear is squashed 'home' 'end' 'pgup' etc. keys
HAHA!! My better half has the same problem (or at least I have the problem , it's her first computer) with her Samsung laptop. The odd thing is, I somehow change the resolution and allsorts of things while trying to perform 'normal' shortcuts.
Your solution I think is the best available.
I was thinking of buying a Lenovo, but I think this woudl annoy me far too much.
Cheers for the heads-up!
_________________Your solution I think is the best available.
I was thinking of buying a Lenovo, but I think this woudl annoy me far too much.
Cheers for the heads-up!
You think that is bad, check this out: http://www.flickr.com/photos/jacobgordon/2455618195/in/photostream/
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Neil: Yes, one of my older Tosh's (not the M5) had the Windows key in the upper right corner (which is ridiculous).
Mike: Reading your comments I was going to point out that you clearly have never used a desktop (aka normal) keyboard. Then I read your comment about liking those stupid buttons next to the UP key and realised it is true: you have never used a desktop keyboard ;)
Steve: Unfortunately, a lot of my computing is on the couch/bed and when presenting at events – an external keyboard is not a realistic/convenient option.
Marcus: 10 days later I am not used to it – far from it, I hate this thing. The light does nothing for me given the angle I have the lid open at. If they were smart, they would have made it backlit the keys.
Moggoly: I can only sympathise.
Chris: That is exactly what amplifies the issue: I too use other normal keyboards in-between and get reminded of the crappiness of the Lenovo's design.
John: All my desktop machines are consistently great. Yes, squashed keys annoy me too!
Matt: Glad I saved you the aggravation.
John and Simon: That picture takes the biscuit; at least they recognise that as a cock up whereas they try to defend the Lenovo's layout as "by design".
_________________Mike: Reading your comments I was going to point out that you clearly have never used a desktop (aka normal) keyboard. Then I read your comment about liking those stupid buttons next to the UP key and realised it is true: you have never used a desktop keyboard ;)
Steve: Unfortunately, a lot of my computing is on the couch/bed and when presenting at events – an external keyboard is not a realistic/convenient option.
Marcus: 10 days later I am not used to it – far from it, I hate this thing. The light does nothing for me given the angle I have the lid open at. If they were smart, they would have made it backlit the keys.
Moggoly: I can only sympathise.
Chris: That is exactly what amplifies the issue: I too use other normal keyboards in-between and get reminded of the crappiness of the Lenovo's design.
John: All my desktop machines are consistently great. Yes, squashed keys annoy me too!
Matt: Glad I saved you the aggravation.
John and Simon: That picture takes the biscuit; at least they recognise that as a cock up whereas they try to defend the Lenovo's layout as "by design".
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